Posts by Nathan Natas

33

How do we get to 1914 and then 1919?

by God_Delusion in

okay, this might sound like a really stupid question, but after researching this matter for the last hour, i still have no idea why the watchtower society points to 1914 and 1919 using the 70 weeks theory.. don't get me wrong, i know all about 607 b.c.e., but i am having trouble understanding why the prophecy of the 70 weeks has been added.

whose idea was it to add the 70 week business into the mix?.

i've researched the following websites and jwn threads so far, yet i'm still hitting blanks:.

Nathan Natas

This is an EXCELLENT discussion, folks! It reminds me of what this board was like a decade ago! I'm really am loving it!

A reminder to the players - yes, of course almost all of us now recognize the "Bible-based chronology" as pure bullshit, but what we want to do here is extract the Watchtower "reasoning from the scriptures" so that we can then shine a bright light on that pretzel logic with all it's "and then something magical happened" leaps of faith... a fine example of this is the Watchtower's claim that the distance (expressed in furlongs) between the Pittsburg Bible House and Brooklyn Bethel (following a specific route) had scriptural significance. I'll bet not a Dub alive today can tell you how many furlongs were involved, what the route was, or what they "proved."

Well done, everybody!

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

Nathan Natas

...oh, one more thought.

Lots of JWs hold that members of the governing body are imperfect men who are infallable in matters of doctrine. That's a fun topic. They will tell you that this is true for the WTB&TS and untrue for the Roman Catholic Church. Mix that with the theory of "new light" and you have a real wrasslin' match on your hands.

70

Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry in

please post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.

my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.

i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.

Nathan Natas

JWs are taught to accept any change as a progressive revelation (new light). What would your wife accept as proof that would not cause the "new light reflex" to kick in? I think this varies from person to person; some are completely incapable of admitting they've been deceived. This is not an uncommon psychology - it is very common for investors to ride their "hot stocks" right down to $0.00 rather than cut their losses, admit they were wrong, and live to see another day.

Maybe it would be helpful to find out what she believes the WTB&TS has that makes it "The TRUYH". Some think that the WTB&TS is the faithful & discreet slave." Some think the WTB&TS "predicted" 1914. Some think that the JWs aversion to war makes them special.

NONE of those claims are legitimate.

First find out your wife's key concepts about the Watchtower, then find out what her definition of PROOF is. Then make your case and hope that she has the strength of character to accept that she has been duped.

The book CAPTIVES OF A CONCEPT does a marvelous job bursting the "FDS" myth, by the way.

630

SAD news about OOMPA......

by redredrose in

jw
friends

our friend, oompa, has passed away.

just recieved the news a couple of hours ago, and have almost no details.

it happened today or yesterday, he took his own life.

Nathan Natas

Damn.

I didn't know OOPMPA; it was here that I learned that his name was Eric, that he lived in North Carolina, that he was 51 years old and that he hanged himself.

He sufferred greatly by being associated with a mind-control cult, but his own most recent posts suggest that it was perhaps the economy that drove him to this irrevocable tragic act.

About a month ago he wrote:

"...i am finding the adjustment to the real world far more difficult than i ever imagined... HOW have YOU done at replacing lifelong friends and family? to make things worse i have no siblings nor aunts uncles nor cousins as both my parents were only children too...and of course i never kept up with high school friends like most jws...so i have a TINY support system going here... and is anybody now way too afraid of getting old??? IT SUCKS!!!... so much loss and pain...that i even thought of a last dich effort to save my marriage by going back to the...gag...kindom hall! so now u know i am really really struggling...ugh..it would kill me just to try and i would wear the purple H deservedly...but my life would be soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much easier and wealthier and omg would get a wonderful wife back....in case nobody rememers i have always said she walks on water...but stubbon and unreasoning...omg...

this is more than just a whine...i am increasingly challanged and am having serious thoughts about going back for some stability i need in my life....but part of me thinks i would die inside...i may be at a crossroads....amazingly an old jw childhood friend who went to bethel and came a few years later and became a ragin apostate (johnny held)...he has been out like 30 years and has ome back....now i hear he was attending for THREE YEARS before they let him back in....mine would be five at least lol....actually i am crying inside..

and talk about bad luck i just lost my biggest customer and had to lay off four good employees today....im lower than low..."

I don't know what business he was in, and it is clear that he needed a larger group of friends and family than he had.

46

Did Abraham Have Schizophrenia? Hearing A Voice Telling Him To Sacrifice Isaac?

by frankiespeakin in

well if someone came to you saying they were going to sacrifice one of thier children to god because god spoke to them telling them to do so what would you conclude?

would you tell him to be faithfull to the voice and do it so they can become god's friend like abraham was?.

http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/pp/ch2.htm.

Nathan Natas

People are best judged with conideration of their TIME And PLACE. I do not believe a historical "Abraham" ever existed. I believe he is a fictional character created by the real and anonymous writers of the Bible. However it may be, Abraham is supposed to have been born about 1900 BC according to people who like Usher's (not the musician, the theologian) chronology.

The Bible story tells us that in Abraham's world, child sacrifice was not uncommon. Baal and his crew like baby back bbq.

Abraham was not a modern post-renaissance man, he was a wandering goatherder, with a goatherder's grasp of the world and his place in it.

So I would not say he was crazier than his neighbors who gave their children to "the gods." Death in that sandbox hellhole was paradise compared to the realities of day-to-day survival.

Another view is that just as the story of Cain and Abel showed the dawn of agriculture over a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, so the story of Abraham showed that man moved from sacrificing his children to "the gods" to sacrificing animals. This small change in mindset made it more likely that mankind would persist on earth, otherwise known as Deathworld.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it unless Leolaia or Farkel can convince me otherwise.

16

The Divine Termination of the Marital Arrangement - I need an old timer

by Bonnie_Clyde in

i talked about this on gophers post about you cannot live forever on paradise earth, but thought i would start a separate one as i need an old timer who can remember attending a witness wedding in the 1950s.

gopher asked

: what happens if the earth (in such a paradise) reaches the point of overpopulation, meaning there are not enough food and other resources available for continued growth?

Nathan Natas

From 1932, Bible Expert Judge Rutherford discourses on "HOME AND HAPPINESS" in paper or as e-book:

http://www.lulu.com/shop/joseph-franklin-rutherford/home-and-happiness/paperback/product-6099505.html

747

Rutherford Exposed: The Story of Berta and Bonnie

by Farkel in

it was made by a women who in later years wore crotchless panties and bras which had holes in the nipple areas.

he not only knew the woman in question (she's now deceased), he has met her numerous times.

up until recently this secret of her year's long sexual affair with rutherford was kept by the family.

Nathan Natas

Is it un-theocratic to be a member of "the Pepsi generation?"

13

Duane Magnani and the "no meetings" child custody injunction

by outsmartthesystem in

jw
friends

i talked to duane and he mentioned that due to the abundance of damning material he has on file that can be used in a court against the society....it is not uncommon for the society to coerce the "believing" parent into signing it.

it is basically an injunction that says that the "believing" parent is not allowed to take the kids to any meetings or discuss any society based beliefs with them at all until the children are of "legal" age.

based on the litany of info against them......evidently the society gladly coerces the "believing" parent into signing it.....even though they know it means that the "little sheep" (the children) will be kept away from the meetings.

Nathan Natas

James Woods asked, " BTW - who exactly is this Duane Magnani?"

Duane Magnani was a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses for eighteen years. After he became a Christian (Roman Catholic) in 1974, he founded Witness, Inc. He has also published a book, THE WATCHTOWER FILES, which can be purchased used on Amazon for as little as $0.01. He has an ENORMOUS collection of Watchtower publications and WATCHTOWER criticisms. He is extremely knowledgable but prefers that anyone dealing with him fully agree with and support his opinions and choices, in my opinion. If you choose to work with him, agree with everything he says, and do not dare suggest that you might be an atheist.

A google search on his name will reveal so me of his more recent activity and some photos.

39

do you remember the Last assembly you attended?

by crystlew123 in

i dont remember the date.

or the year or if it was a district or circuit.

what i do remember is that we rode up with a car full of other female witnesses.

Nathan Natas

ShirleyW said, " NN - You must've been at either Yankee Stadium or Shea Stadium, the Polo Grounds were looonnngg gone by the 70's."

Pardon me. my lapse is showing... probably it was the Aqueduct Racetrack in Queens then. My old mind fails me.

36

snake on bedroom floor when I got up this am!

by nuthouse escapee in

jw
friends

i woke up and nearly put my foot on a 2ft long snake that somehow got up to the 2nd floor.

i screamed and ran out of the room and started crying.

i hate snakes and am terrified of them.

Nathan Natas

Garter snakes are harmless. They do have teeth and can bite you, but they have no venom. A bite should be cleaned well with antiseptic.

It is more likely that the snake will be afraid of you, and if you were to pick him up, he would demonstrate his fear by evacuating his bowels. i know this from personal experience and it smells pretty bad.

Lastly, I feel there has to be some kind of pithy saying we can derive from this. I'm thinking of something like, "Lie down with _____, wake up with serpents."